East London Line extension through Denmark Hill

[jk1]

ELL Phase 2 has got the go ahead. We're going to be on the tube map.

http://londonreconnections.blogspot.com/2009/02/east-london-line-phase-2-gets-go-ahead.html

[paulet]

Good news!

This is on the BBC at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7886008.stm

I wonder if there is some way we can get TfL to incrorporate Camberwell into the station name to put us more on the map?

Maybe Denmark Hill, Camberwell or Camberwell:Denmark Hill or radically just Camberwell

[Regeneguru]

Good news - for Kings and commuters. 

Paulet - Not sure I follow why it is important to re-brand Denmark Hill as "Camberwell".  It's already "Denmark Hill for Camberwell", courtesy of the Camberwell Society.  The fact of a tube will put south Camberwell on the map as a destination, whatever it is called.

Surely such comprehensive rebranding would detract from any attempt to re-open Camberwell Rail itself, which could be done cheaply?  Such a step would be too commuter-focused.  Camberwell Station Road offers excellent opportunities for freight distribution and regenerating the local economy by providing daytime transport.  This would not interfere at all with the Loughborough Junction commuter service - there are absolutely no issues with introducing additional services outside peak hour which stop at Camberwell Rail of old.

We should remember that there are other people in Camberwell besides commuters, that also require infrastructure more serious than buses.

[paulet]

The reason I was advocating rebranding Denmark Hill to incorporate Camberwell into the title is so that it will feature on the tube map and it will begin to create a sense of Camberwell identity.

Thi is currently absent as people outside of the local area do not know where it is and cannot easily identify it. To some extent areas 'become' what they are labelled on the transport map -just look at places like Lambeth which everyone knows as Waterloo or places like Oval which people refer to living in even though there is no such place. Even Denmark Hill is nothing actually more than a road name and yet people will still talk about living in Denamrk Hill rather than Camberwell.

This will do nothing to stop the campaign to re-establish Camberwell Overground station - I hope that the Mayor of London will see an easy 'win' reopening Camberwell. With the large housing development going up in Station Road I am hopeful that this issue will rise further up the agenda.

[Regeneguru]

I hope you are right.  But to put it in context, Denmark Hill for Camberwell or whatever is less accessible for many parts of Camberwell than Oval Tube or the Elephant & Castle.  My instinct is that South Camberwell already has a relatively strong sense of identity, and that the main problem is that North Camberwell is not even acknowledged as an area to be considered for strategic purposes by the Camberwell campaigners who sit at high local political table.

I'd love to believe there was a campaign to re-open Camberwell Rail, but I've seen nothing from the people with the ears of power, and I am aware of their current focus, campaign literature and history.  The 'Society is the engine of Denmark Hill lobbying, and for them old Camberwell Rail is on the "wrong side of the road".

Personally, Denmark Hill is practically Dulwich for the average Camberwellian (who is not a well-to-do commuter).  So while I wish the people well who have benefited from this inclusion, I would hope for some honesty about its fringe status as a Camberwell location, in order not to handicap an attempt to re-open Camberwell Rail, as transport chiefs replied "but you can't have <i>two</i> stations!".

[jk1]

What about renaming the station "Camberwell Hill". That would leave open the possibility of re-opening "Camberwell" or "Camberwell North" or "Camberwell Green". It would also be a bit snappier than "Denmark Hill for Camberwell". It's true there is not currently anywhere called Camberwell Hill. But it's a good descriptive name for the whole area south of the Green.

[INDOMIE]

I cant believe how long this scheme has been held up by politicians just trying to score points!

am i right in thinking this means the end of the Victoria to London Bridge service because that is very useful.

As far as I can see the new service is every 15 minutes and if you are going west, you'll need to get off and change trains at clapham junction?  the opening up of east london and what's left of canary wharf after the depression is clearly good news for the areas longer term prospects......

the main problem still remains though.....the east london line is an orbital route, it wont address the travel into and from central london and there doesnt appear to be any movement on that front at all from the mayor!

[NickW]

what great news. I have waiting for this for some time and i am glad that camberwell will see a major transport boost from the governments spending spree.

I think that it is unrealistic to want to have the station renamed entirely. It would also be misleading and confusing - don't forget that many national rail services will still stop at the station even once it is part of the 'overground'. However 'Denmark hill for Camberwell' incorporates Camberwell onto the tube map giving it recognition as a London area whilst avoiding confusion.

THe Service:
It is true that this is only an orbital service however other trains will continue to run into Victoria. From this March the current Blackfriars service will no longer terminate at Blackfriars but continue via kings cross st Pancrass to North London. Also in 2012 Blackfriars station will span the river meaning you will be able to alight right by Borough Market and the Tate modern (not so far form London Bridge). It is true that those heading for London bridge will have to change at peckham in future but it wont take more than a few minutes longer than it currently does.

The overground will get new tube style trains and we will be able to use oyster cards. Despite service cuts to London Bridge I mostly think its a positive thing.

[Rah rah rah]

This is fantastic news. well done to all those who have put their support behind it, especially Southwark Council.
If would be great if we could also get Camberwell Station re-opened (on Station Road) - although maybe for the time being we should just celebrate the ELL and finally, some good news for SE5.

[ferguskane]

Wonderfull