Save the South London Line

[fatcat]

With news of how Camberwell is changing for the worse, a new betting shop and the loss of Duraty's shop.  I really hope the lobing to Save the South London Line wins.  WE NEED THIS SERVICE.

Now we have 2 trains an hour from Denmark Hill to London Bridge if plans go ahead by 2012 there will be none.

Currently we have 4 trains an hour to Victoria again if plans go ahead by 2012 there will only be 2.

Please show your support and sign the petition:
http:/tinyurl.com/SouthLondonLine

[NickW]

The 'South London line - SLL' should not be saved for Denmark Hill users - not unless you want to see the  compulsory purchase of land, demolition of houses and millions of pounds of your money spent on building two extra tracks before 2011 and all this for a presently underused service. You need to realise you can EITHER be on the tube network and have cheap orbital services around London and access to loads of new stations using oyster when the overground comes and still have two trains/hr to Victoria OR you can continue with just the SLL to London Bridge (this after all is the only station being lost) - YOU CANT HAVE BOTH there is not the capacity on the current line. Besides if you really need London Bridge all you have to do is change at Peckham Rye. Orbital services will run every 10-15mins in both directions you hop off at Peckham Rye cross the platform an hop on a train to London Bridge. As for all the councilors, GLA members and other politicians signed up to this facebook group – well it smacks of hypocrisy. Firstly they know the above to be the case but publicly they are campaign for saving the SLL knowing full well this will never happen. It is shallow spin after all if they together don’t have the influence to stop this – being in charge and all – then who does. Its disappointing but sadly I expect nothing less of our public servants these days.

[copeywolf]

Fair enough NickW.

But the SLL was being withdrawn even before ELL Phase 2 was given the go-ahead. Would have been a stitch up.

We will lose our trains to London Bridge and Battersea Park and have half as many trains to Victoria, but other folk living near other stations will be worse off.

Tracks aren't an issue. They just want to use platforms at London Bridge for other things.

Underused? No way.

[fatcat]

An underused service - rubbish.

There is huge investment being made at Denmark hill train station - disabled access and a revamping of the surrounding streets.    Reducing train services makes a mockery of this investment.

Denmark hill needs the South London Line - access to hospitals etc and I think it's really shortsighted  not to support the campaign.  In this current economic climate we need to keep all we have because there will be no money for further developments.

[NickW]

IF we could have both ELL & SLL that would be great but I don’t believe the present line can accommodate this - it would mean a train stopping at Denmark Hill every 4 minutes or more and this doesn't include all the passenger and freight trains which pass through without stopping. Logically I don’t see that the station, signaling or track has the capacity for this unless you construct new track which isn't going to happen - so given the choice I personally would prefer the ELL any day.

[Monkeycat]

Ok so we lose two trains an hour to Victoria and the link to London Bridge. However;

1. The 4 trains an hour are not at regularly spaced intervals, but come within a few minutes of each other.

2. We have gained two trains an hour to St. Pancras, Farringdon, City Thameslink and Kentish Town.

3. We will also have the ELL.

I would say that for the loss of two not strictly necessary trains to Victoria, and the fact that you can still get to Blackfriars which isn't exactly a million miles away from London Bridge (especially when you take the extension of the B.F. over the river), I would say that all in all, it's a pretty fair exchange.

For that reason I won't be signing the petition.

[Monkeycat]

Oh and you could always change at Peckham Rye and get a train to London Bridge. Surely not that bad...

[fatcat]

This might not be the most regular service but it gets us to London Bridge! We need to keep this service.

Find out more at:  http://tinyurl.com/SouthLondonLine
Lets not be NIMBY's about this.

[fatcat]

Did you see the South London Press on Tuesday - with London Travel Watch saying it is now their
top priority and that they are reported as saying "We want the South London Lind to stay"!

[Monkeycat]

Another bonus for the new lines...we can get to north london quickly, admittedly only at peak times at the mo. The other day I got from Camberwell to Queens Park in less than 45 minutes. Hurrah for the Thameslink from Bedford to Sevenoaks.

I think the loss of one direct train to a mainline station for a gain to at least 2 others, but with extra bonuses such as a direct train to Luton airport and north London is a better deal.

[copeywolf]

Only at peak times, and not at the weekend.

That's why it's good, but not great.

[Eileen]

Another bonus for the new lines...we can get to north london quickly, admittedly only at peak times at the mo. The other day I got from Camberwell to Queens Park in less than 45 minutes. Hurrah for the Thameslink from Bedford to Sevenoaks. I think the loss of one direct train to a mainline station for a gain to at least 2 others, but with extra bonuses such as a direct train to Luton airport and north London is a better deal.

It is more than the loss of one direct train - how did you think it was just that? In 2012 it is
* the loss of two trains an hour to London Bridge
* the loss of two trains an hour to Victoria during the day (and from 2012 they were promised at 4 tph at 15mins intervals)
* NO - 0 - trains between Denmark Hill and Victoria in the the early morning and in the evening.

Also the trains to Blackfriars are not part of the choice on offer. The current improvement in the Blackfriars service, ie that we can now go north beyond there again, is the direct result of the reconstruction of Blackfriars station, as no trains can stop there during rebuilding.

There is no guarantee that it will remain a through service when the new station is opened in 2011. We have to be pressing our case for that now as we are doing as part of the current campaign to save our services into central London. See the last section of the Campaign Page on the Southwark Rail Users Group website at http://www.peckhamvision.org/brg/rail-cuts  See the rest of that page for up to date news, background, and actions rail users can take.

[ferguskane]

I did not know about the 0 trains to Victoria...

Is there somewhere where we can see a comprehensive list of what services will be cut/retained/added?

F

[NickW]

Hi Eileen,

All the Thameslink trains STILL STOP at Blackfriars and will do through the whole of the reconstruction. All Denmark Hill Thameslink trains WILL continue to serve stations beyond Blackfriars once the modernisation of the station is complete. The new overground service from Denmark hill will be a fantastic addition to services from Denmark hill station giving us direct access to the city via Shoreditch station it will also allow interchange with the Northern line at Clapham North and give us a direct service to clapham junction and the cross platform interchange which would give access to Chelsea and Shepard’s bush beyond. It will revolutionise our travel habits and would (I believe) mean that the already underused South London line would become even more of a waste of tax payers money.

Sorry. Nick

[ferguskane]

Hmm,

Anecdotally, there are plenty of people where I work (IoP/Kings College Hospital) who need the Victoria-LB line to get to and from work.  Without proper research, how can one quantify the extent to which these services are needed?

In addition to the apparent lack of research by the transport authorities, despite allegedly being involved in the negotiations, IoP/KCL/KCH have done nothing to try and engage their staff and students in consultation about the upcoming changes.

Given the apparent lack of reliable information, it's really difficult to decide whether we will be better or worse off after this.